The Brilliant Body: Unpacking Trauma and Its Impact with Katie Kurtz
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In This Episode
In this interview with trauma expert Katie Kurtz, listeners can expect to come away with an expanded understanding of trauma and what it means to operate through a trauma-informed lens.
Katie provides clarity around key trauma definitions and outlines competencies ranging from basic awareness to active trauma responsiveness, empowering listeners to evaluate their own experience and knowledge.
With nuance and care, Katie addresses concepts like safety, trust-building, and unintended harm, equipping storytellers and creatives with principles to minimize hurt. She also offers transparency about her own learning journey, normalizing missteps while offering suggestions for self-compassion and repairing damage.
Katie gives storytellers guidance on holding space, maintaining boundaries, and sharing responsibly within one’s scope. Her insight bridges theory and practice, making trauma-informed approaches tangible through diverse examples across industries.
About Katie Kurtz
Katie is a subject-matter expert and trainer who specializes in integrative and inclusive trauma-informed care. She works with leaders and brands who care about the humanity of the people they work with. Katie leans on her learned and lived experiences to work with leaders across multi-disciplinary industries to help them access trauma-informed skills to design and promote cultures of trust, safety, and intersectional inclusion.
Connect With Katie Kurtz
Website | Instagram | LinkedIn | A Trauma-Informed Future Podcast
About Host Maria Bryan
Maria Bryan is a trauma-informed storytelling trainer. She helps nonprofit leaders tell powerful and impactful stories that resist harm. Maria has over fifteen years in marketing communications in the public sector. She has a Master’s Degree in Public Administration, a Bachelor’s Degree in Journalism, and is professionally certified in Trauma & Resilience, Trauma-Informed Space Holding, and Somatic Embodiment & Regulation. Maria is a firm believer that storytellers make the world a healthier, safer, cleaner, and happier place.
Connect with Maria
Speaking & Training | LinkedIn | Email
Transcripts
Maria: I am very excited to have Katie Kurtz on the show to help us create some really important shared language on trauma and what it means to be trauma-informed. Katie is a subject matter expert and trainer who specializes in integrative and inclusive trauma-informed care. I took Katie's Cultivate training program on trauma-informed space holding, and it has shaped so much of my work. I can't think of a better person to have this conversation with. Welcome, Katie, to the When Bearing Witness podcast. I'm so thrilled you're here.
Katie: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be in conversation with you.
Maria: So when I first started down this rabbit hole of being a trauma-informed person and storyteller, your resources, support, and guidance frequently came up. So even before we really met and interacted, you had already been a support in my path. I want to learn more about your journey, which I find really interesting because while you have this social work background, you’ve chosen to bring trauma-informed space holding to the broader world—to all kinds of industries and professions. So tell me a little bit about your journey and what brought you to supporting folks across all kinds of industries to become trauma-informed.
Katie: Yeah, so I started my social work career about 15 years ago, which is the same time that the trauma-informed care model we most notably refer to—the SAMHSA model—was published. I grew up with this trauma-informed care framework, and it was still very new. It’s still a young approach, and I was learning about it. It immediately made sense. At the time, I was a trauma therapist doing clinical work with people with very complex trauma histories. The approach grew with me as I grew within my career.
My social work career has been very diverse—like many social workers—taking me through a variety of spaces including healthcare, public health, violence prevention, government work, and nonprofit management. But trauma and trauma-informed care have always been the common thread. Although my work began in clinical settings, I moved beyond that and started to see how pervasive trauma was—not just in the most complex spaces and communities, but everywhere. When we looked beyond the micro incidents, we saw trauma’s macro impact. It was insidious. It wasn’t just war or violence or injury.
We were also seeing the impact in the workforce—vicarious and secondary trauma—and recognizing how the systems we worked in were creating and perpetuating harm. My career has always centered trauma-informed care, and through my own lived experiences, I really began to see the need.
About seven or eight years ago, I was craving a career shift and became a certified coach. I entered the coaching and business world, which was new to me, and realized how applicable trauma-informed care was—not just applicable but a necessity. No one was really talking about it at the time. Then the pandemic came, and people started talking more about trauma, stress, and mental health. I saw trauma-informed care entering non-traditional fields.
That was exciting because I believe this approach is inclusive and adaptable for all professions. But I also became leery. I saw people without training or who were trained by unqualified folks speaking about trauma in ways that might have good intentions but could cause harm. That’s when I began melding my worlds and helping people see that trauma-informed care applies to everyone—and making it practical.
I specialize in integrative trauma-informed care, meaning I honor the origins of the approach but recognize that it wasn’t originally intended for everyone. The original model 15 years ago was created by clinicians for clinicians. It wasn’t meant for corporate, coaching, wellness, or other sectors.
I interpret this approach and make it inclusive so that anyone can apply it within their professional boundaries. My dedication was also reinforced during the pandemic. I lost my mother-in-law to suicide during that time, which personally reaffirmed how imperative this approach is.
Maria: I want to say how inaccessible trauma-informed education can be. It was so disheartening at first. I thought, “What am I doing trying to understand trauma-informed care without a strong social work background?” Since your Cultivate program, I’ve come to believe it doesn’t have to be that complicated. Understanding trauma and being trauma-aware and informed is actually more accessible than we think. As educators, we need to pave that way—to talk about complex things in a way people can understand and act on.
Katie: Absolutely. I don’t believe this approach has to be complicated—unless you think being empathetic and human is complicated. And sure, being human is complex. But if you have a hard time being with people’s humanity, then yes, this may be challenging.
Most people who come to this work already have empathy and care about others. Trauma-informed care gives us a blueprint for how to show up and lead—no matter the profession. It’s something you pick up and apply to your own space.
And I always emphasize this: just because trauma-informed care was formalized in clinical settings doesn’t mean all therapists or social workers are trained in it. Many aren’t. I didn’t learn about trauma in my MSW program—I had to learn through work. This still isn’t a standard of care in most programs.
It’s fascinating to see how eager non-traditional fields are to adopt trauma-informed care—while many nonprofits and healthcare settings still hesitate.
Maria: I’ve had nonprofits say, “I just don’t think the people we serve have experienced trauma,” or “I don’t feel like I belong in this space.” But very early on, I learned to approach trauma-informed care during interviews and storytelling. Now I realize—it’s not just a hat I wear during story gathering. It’s a lens I carry with me in everything—in parenting, in my relationships. It should be foundational, especially in nonprofit and healthcare work.
I’m feeling hopeful that this will become more of the norm.
Can you help us create shared language around trauma? How do you define trauma?
Katie: Great question—and a great place to start. Definitions help us create shared understanding. Historically, trauma had a narrow definition: war, sexual assault, serious injury. Something only some people experienced. But now we know that trauma is not the event—it’s the body’s response to the event. It’s what overwhelms our nervous system and disconnects us from a sense of safety. It’s too much, too fast, too soon.
Some people return to a neutral state. Others get stuck—leading to complex trauma.
This expanded definition allows us to stop othering. If you work with humans, or human environments, you work with trauma. The pandemic really highlighted this. We all experienced the same global event but walked away with very different direct and indirect experiences.
Maria: This is so important in the storytelling context. I talk about three kinds of people impacted by story: story owners (who bravely share), story receivers (audiences), and storytellers (those who bear witness).
If we hold a narrow view of trauma, we assume only the story owner is affected—and only if the event was “extreme.” But trauma is about the human response. Audiences can be vulnerable to vicarious trauma. And storytellers often say, “It’s not about me,” even when they are holding space for incredibly painful stories. They don’t see themselves as vulnerable to trauma.
This is why understanding trauma is so important. There’s no one way. It’s not about proximity to the event. It’s about your nervous system’s response.
Katie: Exactly. And there are many myths around trauma. People see it as a “bad word” or associate it with others—those poor people over there. That “othering” creates distance.
The reality is: we all have nervous systems. We’ve all experienced stress. And when it accumulates at toxic levels, it becomes trauma. Trauma is not a mental illness—it’s our bodies doing exactly what they were designed to do to protect us.
We’re seeing trauma responses play out every day in the news, in relationships, in communities. And how we respond will differ based on our lived experiences, identities, environments, and systems we’re part of.
This includes our access to care, safe housing, clean water, or even safe walkable neighborhoods. All of these social determinants play a role.
I also don’t subscribe to the Big T/Little T trauma hierarchy. Trauma is a spectrum. Comparing who had it worse doesn’t help—it just replicates the same harm. We need to move away from that kind of thinking.
Maria: I couldn’t agree more. That leads well into one of your foundational teachings: trauma competency levels. You talk about being trauma-aware, trauma-mindful, trauma-informed, and trauma-responsive.
Could you briefly describe each?
Katie: Sure. I created the trauma competency framework as a scaffolded approach to help people understand where they are and how to grow.
Trauma-Aware: This is basic knowledge. You’ve read books, listened to podcasts, maybe have lived experience. But it stops at awareness.
Trauma-Mindful: You begin to integrate that knowledge into your life with some tools and intentional awareness.
Trauma-Informed: This is best practice. It goes beyond awareness and mindfulness. You gain a foundation of skills to apply trauma-informed principles within your scope of practice. For storytellers who hold space for others’ stories, this is where you want to be. I strongly recommend formal training at this level.
Trauma-Responsive: These are people who are specifically trained to help others heal—therapists, somatic practitioners, social workers. It includes specialized expertise and experience.
In the first three levels, you’re not digging into people’s trauma stories. You’re learning to show up and lead with a trauma-informed lens.
Maria: That’s so helpful. I want to underline a few things for storytellers. Being trauma-informed isn’t just a philosophy—it includes tools and boundaries. You don’t have to be a therapist. You can hold space in a way that resists harm and promotes safety—while knowing your role is not to heal someone.
You mentioned earlier we can’t promise to create safe spaces. Why not? And what does that mean?
Katie: Great question. Safety isn’t just physical—it includes psychological, emotional, moral, and cultural safety. Our bodies constantly assess whether we feel safe. And what feels safe to me might not feel safe to you.
So it’s presumptuous to say, “This is a safe space.” I can’t guarantee that. But what I can do is structure my facilitation, pricing, content, and interactions to promote safety—so people can access their own felt sense of safety.
Safety is built through trust. And trust is earned, not assumed.
Maria: Language matters—especially in this work. We often hear the phrase “do no harm.” But you’ve talked about why we can’t promise that either.
Katie: Yes. I’ve taken that oath too. But the truth is, I’ve caused harm—because I’m human. We can have good intentions, but if the impact lands as harmful, that matters.
We need to accept that we will cause harm. Then we must actively reduce harm and be prepared to repair it. Trauma-informed care is a harm reduction framework. It’s about intentional action, reducing pathways to harm, and being accountable when harm happens.
Maria: I’ve absolutely caused harm before. And it can feel like failure. But there are things we can do when harm happens. What advice would you give to storytellers in that position?
Katie: First, humanize harm. Accept that it will happen—and commit to reducing it.
Shift your language away from platitudes. Don’t minimize or bypass someone’s story. Witness their humanity. If you mess up, own it. Reframe. Apologize. Debrief with someone you trust. And give yourself grace.
The more trauma-informed you become, the less fear you have about what might go wrong—because you have the tools to show up with care.
Maria: You are the host of the Trauma-Informed Future podcast. I love that it explores nuance and real-world application. What can listeners expect?
Katie: It’s a space to go deeper into these conversations, with solo episodes and guest interviews on trauma-informed storytelling, copywriting, leadership, and more.
The first four episodes are a great primer if this is new to you. I cover definitions, history, the myth of trauma as a buzzword, and why this work matters to me.
This is a long game. It’s rooted in social justice. There’s no quick win—but the journey is worth it.
Maria: I know listeners will want to connect. Where can they learn more?
Katie: Start with the podcast! I’m also on LinkedIn and Instagram. You can visit katiekurtz.com to stay updated on trainings and offerings.
Maria: I’ll include those links in the show notes. Thank you so much, Katie, for your wisdom and empathy.
Katie: Thank you. I always say my superpower is making anything trauma-informed. And I’m so inspired to see more storytellers doing this work. The possibilities are endless.
The When Bearing Witness Podcast is produced by Rustic Roots. They are video storytellers passionate about sharing the impact of nonprofits. From story ideation to beautiful and powerful videos on screen, they've got you covered. Learn more at Rusticroots.co.