Lessons From a Social Justice-Driven Oral Historian with Cliff Mayotte
This episode is sponsored by Bloomerang, a solution that helps nonprofits like ShowerUp, which provides mobile showers and personal care for those experiencing homelessness. Thanks to Bloomerang, ShowerUp increased their volunteer signups by 60% and first-time donors by making it easy to give right on their site. ShowerUp's Executive Director, Paul Schmit, said, "Bloomerang is an ideal marriage of volunteer and donor management. The deeper we get into it, the more we love it." If you want to see how ShowerUp easily manages its volunteers and donors with Bloomerang, go to bloomerang.com/bearing-witness.
In This Episode
Cliff Mayotte, a seasoned oral historian and co-author of the book Say It Forward: A Guide to Social Justice Storytelling shares invaluable insights from his experiences as a social justice-centered storyteller. Cliff's journey began with a deep love for theater and a transformative encounter with Studs Terkel's oral histories, which ignited his passion for storytelling rooted in social justice.
He challenges rigid assumptions about trauma-informed practices, advocating for creating "brave spaces" that embrace nuance, ambiguity, and the full humanity of storytellers. His wisdom extends to navigating power dynamics, historical trauma, and the physical manifestations of intergenerational suffering.
Cliff's approach reminds us that trauma-informed storytelling is ultimately about building authentic relationships based on mutual choice and collaboration. By sharing powerful questioning techniques and a deep reverence for storytellers' autonomy, he offers listeners a refreshing perspective on amplifying voices with care, nuance, and a commitment to resisting harm while promoting safety.
About Cliff Mayotte
Cliff is an interdisciplinary storyteller and educator who uses oral history, theatre, and journalism in his work. He is the co-author and editor of Say it Forward: A Social Justice Guide to Storytelling. He is a recipient of the Beverly Kees Educator Award from the Society of Professional Journalists. For over 12 years, Cliff served as the Education Program Director for Voice of Witness, a nonprofit that amplifies the voices of people impacted by and fighting against injustice. Cliff is also a former education director for the Tony award-winning Berkeley Repertory Theatre.
He is currently the lead teacher for The Nation Fund's Fellowship for the Future of Journalism, working to nurture diverse voices and support the next generation of independent journalists.
Connect with Cliff
Website | LinkedIn | Say It Forward Book
Connect with Maria
Speaking & Training | LinkedIn | Email
Transcripts
Maria:
Cliff Mayotte is a storyteller and educator who uses oral history, theater, and journalism in his work. He’s the co-author and editor of Say It Forward: A Social Justice Guide to Storytelling, which is one of my go-to guides on trauma-informed storytelling. For over 12 years, Cliff served as the Education Program Director for Voice of Witness, a nonprofit that amplifies the voices of people impacted by and fighting against injustice.
Cliff is bringing us behind the scenes of being a social justice–led oral historian and co-authoring Say It Forward. Welcome to the show, Cliff. I'm so thrilled to have you here.
Cliff:
Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Thanks for asking.
Maria:
Let’s start with your journey. What brought you to this work as a storyteller and oral historian?
Cliff:
Kind of a strange journey, but I think that’s typical. Most storytellers and oral historians I know were voracious readers as kids. I got into theater—that’s my background. I was directing a play by Arthur Miller called The American Clock, and during research, I came across Studs Terkel’s Hard Times. That book blew my mind. I was instantly taken by it.
So I went back to the producers and asked, “With all due respect to Arthur Miller, can I stage the book instead?” Of course, not the whole 400 pages, but we worked directly from first-person accounts and narratives. That kind of got me started on the oral history path.
Later on, I worked for Berkeley Repertory Theatre as the Education Director, and they had a strong connection to Anna Deavere Smith, an oral historian and performer. Seeing her work was eye-opening. Then I started teaching high school journalism and got more into social justice, combining storytelling, theater, oral history, and human rights education. That led to this interdisciplinary narrative path I’ve been on ever since.
Maria:
It’s so interesting how different backgrounds and interests can converge into something meaningful and important.
Cliff:
Totally. I don’t know many oral historians or storytellers who trained specifically in that field. They often come from writing, social work, activism, ethnography—you name it. But they all saw the need to open up space to listen to stories that might not otherwise be heard.
Maria:
During your time with Voice of Witness, you co-edited Say It Forward, one of my favorite books. It highlights so much about trauma-informed story gathering. Can you share anything from the book that oral historians and storytellers can put into practice?
Cliff:
Yes. And first, I want to shout out my co-author Claire Kiefer. She now works with the Georgia Capital Defenders, conducting oral histories with families of those on death row. She’s doing incredible work.
One of the biggest things we learned at Voice of Witness is that every community has different needs. There’s no one-size-fits-all approach to trauma-informed care and ethical storytelling.
What we always encouraged was to listen—listen to how communities talk about themselves and what they don’t say. A big mistake storytellers make is assuming they know what someone’s trauma is or how they identify with it.
It’s essential to be prepared if trauma comes up, but also not to expect it. We emphasized things like mutual benefit, peer support, and support for both the storyteller and the listener.
Approach each community with a beginner’s mind. We learned that over and over again. For example, while working with people impacted by Hurricane Katrina, we kept using the word “displaced,” and some folks pushed back on that word—it didn’t resonate with them. Or using the term “victim”—some people identify that way, and others don’t. These labels can be limiting.
So we tried to focus on the whole person, with all their identities. Not just the traumatic experience. That was central to the work—seeing people as complete human beings.
Maria:
Yes! As ethical storytellers, we sometimes crave hard and fast rules, but language and identity are fluid. Some people may prefer to be called a victim to acknowledge injustice. It’s not up to us to decide.
Cliff:
Exactly.
Maria:
Another thing that stood out in Say It Forward was the complexity around “passing the mic.” Sometimes, the advice is that storytellers should come from within the community. But other times, people prefer an outsider to listen. Can you unpack that?
Cliff:
Yes, that’s a great point. People often ask, “Should I be the one doing this?” or “Should someone from the same community conduct the interview?” And I always say: ask. Just ask.
Assumptions are dangerous. I remember a powerful example from Voice of Witness editor Audrey Petty. She’s a Black woman from Chicago and was interviewing residents in public housing like Cabrini Green. She assumed she'd be seen as an insider—but she wasn’t. To them, she was still an outsider.
So you just don’t know. That’s why humility, curiosity, and respect are so critical. Empathy, to me, is intense curiosity about others’ experiences. You also need to be transparent about your own positionality—how who you are might affect what stories are shared and how.
There’s this ethnographic mindset of “I’m here to study you,” which can feel extractive. But oral historian Alessandro Portelli—he was an Italian socialist who interviewed coal miners in Appalachia—took a different approach. He told people, “I’m not here to study you. I’m here to learn from you.” That opened doors. That’s a much healthier dynamic.
Maria:
That’s so helpful. It’s easy to get rigid when we’re trying to be perfectly ethical and trauma-informed. But you remind us to be human first.
Cliff:
Exactly. Our carefulness can make us overly clinical. It comes from a good place, but it can be too much.
We often say we’re creating a “safe space,” but that can feel rigid. At the University of San Francisco, I learned about the concept of a “brave space” instead. That resonated more with me. Brave spaces allow for nuance, ambiguity, and even discomfort.
Maria:
Yes. My teacher Katie Kurtz talks about this too. She encourages us to say “promote safety” rather than promise it—and “resist harm” rather than say “do no harm.” Because we can’t control everything. But we can try our best.
Cliff:
That really resonates. I’m adopting that language now too!
Maria:
You’ve worked with communities navigating historical and collective trauma. What have you learned from that?
Cliff:
It’s always different. When I worked with Indigenous communities, I learned a lot by listening to what they talked about—and what they didn’t. That gave me a window into historical and intergenerational trauma.
It’s also something I noticed with families impacted by the Holocaust. Each generation experiences and talks about trauma differently. I used to think trauma was about what happened directly to you. But now I see it’s also about what your parents, grandparents, or ancestors experienced—and how it lands in your body.
Trauma can be intellectualized or discussed psychologically, but it also lives in the body. It changes how people move through the world. That’s something I came to really understand through oral history.
Maria:
Yes. We often talk about emotional health, but trauma increases the risk for things like asthma, cancer, and obesity. It’s not just emotional—it’s physical.
Cliff:
Absolutely. In the oral history about public housing in Chicago, many African American residents talked about how trauma—like the trauma of simply being Black in Chicago—led to health issues.
Maria:
So, when working with groups who’ve likely experienced historical trauma, do you approach them differently?
Cliff:
Yes. I back everything up to the very beginning: “Do you want to do this? Why do you want to do this?”
Just because oral history has been helpful for some doesn’t mean everyone wants to tell their story. I’ve had people say, “Why should I share my story with you?” And that’s a great question.
This work is about relationships—with integrity. It’s about mutual choice. Whether the relationship lasts two weeks or two years, we’re choosing each other.
Maria:
That’s so powerful—“We’re choosing each other.” Even when drafting interview questions, I love that we can move beyond the typical narrative arc and invite people to share their fuller stories.
Cliff:
Yes. One of my favorite questions, which I learned from Sarah Sinclair, editor of How We Go Home, is: “Who else is in the room with us right now?” It invites people to acknowledge the ancestors, mentors, and others who shaped them.
Another question I love is: “Is there something you wish I had asked?” That one can lead to unexpected, meaningful stories.
Maria:
Those are beautiful. Thank you so much for all the humanity and wisdom you’ve shared with us. Can you let folks know how to connect with you?
Cliff:
Sure! You can find me at cliffmayotte.com. Right now, I’m doing a mix of consulting, writing, and directing theater again. It’s all through a social justice lens, and I love the variety—it keeps me learning.
Maria:
Cliff, thank you again for being here and sharing space with us today.
Cliff:
Thank you for having me. This was really fun.
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